Two Years in Office: Corruption has never been checked in Nigeria like now under Buhari Government – Bola Ajibola

By Kemi Kasumu,

General Editor

Prince Bola Ajibola (SAN), Nigeria’s former Minister of Justice and Attorney-General of the Federation (AGF), is Proprietor of Crescent University, Abeokuta (CUAB), Ogun State, Nigeria.  In this interview, the former Nigerian High Commissioner to the United Kingdom x-rays the Muhammadu Buhari’s government in the last two years and gives his assessment and thought.  He does not however fail to express his dismay that some Nigerians keep talking about bad economy, while great nations all over the world are saying that Nigeria economy has no problem. He adds that the problem with Nigerian economy is that the people who are calling it bad are doing so in order to run down the country.  Excerpts:

Can I start this interview by asking what Your Excellency’s assessment is, of the President Muhammadu Buhari-led Federal Government in the last two years?

That is alright.  But I would first and foremost like to raise a point of fact here which is that, anybody who is in the government purposely to rid the government and the country of corruption cannot be popular.  Majority of those in the government are there for the purpose of enriching their pockets.  Most of them are there to steal, to cheat, to bribe and to be bribed and to enrich their pockets with corruption.

Therefore, if there is anyone going into the government to get rid of such a situation, he is already on the uphill task and it is bound to be difficult.  Hence you find a lot of people condemning the government. Hence you find a lot of people saying a lot of sad and bad things against the government.  And, unfortunately, the government is headed by someone who at the deep down of the anti-corruption suddenly develops health issue and that gave them the impetus, that gave them the idea of the possible attempt to get rid of him.  And as long as he is still there and is all out to rid our country of corruption, the more he will be derided by his people who are there invariably to cheat and to deprive the country of its wealth.

It has been going on for a long time.  It is still going on now.  A lot of people are still corruptly enriching themselves, left, right and centre.  There is no doubt about that.  People are suffering as a result of the activities of these corrupt people and it is in fact the cause of recession causing oppression, causing depression.  It is very, very unfortunate.

But you see the issue of this corruption is not just an issue of yesterday.  It started a long time ago.  It started when it was all on 10 percent but now it is far more than that.  It is taking everything and enriching themselves at all cost with all they can grab.  It is far more than corruption.  It is a matter of stealing everything that they can lay their hands upon.  That is our problem.  And, unless we get rid of it, it can kill Nigeria.

And to get rid of corruption before it kills Nigeria, are you suggesting therefore the continuity of the same government that started it two years ago?

Of course there is no doubt about that.  We must be able to get rid of it.  We should endeavour to get rid of it. And it is already institutionalized and it is very much in our Assemblies; very much in our Senate, everywhere we have it.  Unless there is this concerted effort, first of all, to embark on restitution and getting hold of the money wherever they may be, in order to apply it to the proper and right things.

“But it was not as bad as this when we were up working hard to earn our living, during the days when we were in agriculture; in groundnut pyramid in the North, in the Middle-Belt from where we were exporting hides and skins, in the South West with cocoa and in the South South with palm oil.  We were working very hard for our earnings or our daily bread.  All of that we had and so we were using the money objectively, positively, purposefully, rightly.  But at that time, we cannot write off corruption.  It has been all there all the times.  Because it was not being checked, it started going deep into our governance and therefore were carrying on with bad governments, military or civilian.”

But in the last two years would you say there has been a resemblance of the concerted effort that you are advocating for in the current government that makes fight against the corruption one of its three major cardinal points?

There is no doubt that there has been an improvement.  There is no doubt since some monies are already in the coffers of the government, since they have been able to realise part of the sums stolen.

Is there any way we can correctly link corruption to the cause of economic recession that the country has faced in recent time?

There is no recession anywhere.  What we have had is some people just getting hold of the whole lots of the money, which should be in the hand of the government, in the pockets of these individuals.  It is sad!  It is very sad!

Early May 2015 right here on the same seat you are, you said in an interview that the government that was coming on the way was going to fight corruption but that in doing so, people in the act of corruption would do a serious fight back which would cause hardship in the land and that people would just heartlessly go into all kinds of evils.  We do not know you to be a prophet but, of course, a global figure that has capacity for analyzing situation.  How did you come about that prediction that has already come to past, exactly the way you said it?

It is true because corruption is already endemic, it is already deep rooted and they have been used to it and they have been living on it and it is of general application, of general practice.  And once it has become so regular and become so much all around, it is difficult to renege.  It is difficult to go back from it.  That is the problem we are in.

But why won’t we, as Nigerian people, be able to just leave a bad past and willingly choose to change into a better present for our improved future?

Ha! You see, the money was coming in easily.  It was all about our petroleum being sold.  Only very few were doing the work and everyone was milking.

We were told that even before oil there was also corruption in Nigeria.  Why is corruption a seeming natural phenomenon in this country; won’t there be any day that one positive thing will be used to relate to Nigeria and Nigerians, away from corruption and all sorts of evil?

But it was not as bad as this when we were up working hard to earn our living, during the days when we were in agriculture; in groundnut pyramid in the North, in the Middle-Belt from where we were exporting hides and skins, in the South West with cocoa and in the South South with palm oil.  We were working very hard for our earnings or our daily bread.  All of that we had and so we were using the money objectively, positively, purposefully and rightly.

But at that time, we cannot write off corruption.  It has been all there all the times.  Because it was not being checked, it started going deep into our governance and therefore were carrying on with bad governments, military or civilian.

Had the current government not come into power when it did, what would Nigerian situation have been?

We would continue to be in the same stupor, and the same poor situation would have been getting worse.  Eventually it would have destroyed us.

Is that to say that in the last two years of current government we are now getting out of the poor situation?

At least, it is somehow static now.  It is being checked and people are watching here and there with the fear of their being detected.  That is still better than allowing it to go unchecked.

Now on security, what is your assessment like?

The matter of security is another bane that is not being properly checked at this present time.  It is still very much with us when a collection of people are determined to deal death and destruction with the government.  The situation is not a happy one.  It is still very much a place where the whole country is considered to be in a dangerous and precarious situation.  Nigeria is the 13^thmost dangerous country in the world at the moment.  That is sad now that people don’t want Nigerians in their countries. They are being thrown out and they are being sent home.  And when they are home, they prefer to destroy rather than to create, rather than to improve, rather than to work hard.  A lot of people are not safe anywhere they may go at this time.

Which is to say beyond Boko Haram, which has been tackled in the last two years, we still have other aspects of insecurity that should be addressed?

Oh! We have a lot.  We have a lot.  Apart from Boko Haram, we have all the herdsmen and we have all the farmers fighting them, we have a lot of Niger Delta people who also are still very ferocious causing a lot of damage to lives and properties and destroying anything wherever they may go.

Also look at issues of cultism here and there in our various communities; it is part of the problem I am talking about.  All these things are there.  We cannot delude ourselves and say that it is not there.

There is a saying about how police are part of those problems that we live with, in our various communities, now talking about Southern Nigeria outside the Boko Haram issue that is tackled by the government. Do you agree with that?

In some cases they (the police) are part of the problems.  In other cases they are doing their best.  But that is their problem because, today, you hear about a group of policemen trying to derive profits from what they are doing and another day you find the policemen doing very well so that if collectively they can all do very well, things will be better.

But some are not doing very well.  There is no doubt about that because, if a policeman should take the life of somebody else in his own hand without a legal reason whatsoever, that is the problem.

What about the economy and how you think it has fared in the last two years?

You see the problem there is that, people are running down the economy.  The economy itself is not all that bad.  They call a dog a bad name to kill it.  From outside, foreign countries and institutions outside kept telling us that our economy is not bad, that we are no longer in recession, that we are okay and gradually the Naira is getting stronger against the Dollar.  Yet in order to get us still in this mess all the times, some people find it their hobby to say we are in recession and that everything is poor, everything is bad and everything is difficult.  They are saying it psychologically to keep us there.  Because, if there is lawlessness and all these difficulties plaguing us, we shall not be in position to serve ourselves properly.

Especially that our President is ill and now all that we are saddled with is the good effort of the Vice President who is doing his very best, in line with the programmes of his boss, and is working hard to keep the country in good shape.

“And they should be careful about these whistleblowers.  They could keep the money somewhere and ask the government to go there and get it and they will still earn part of the money.  That is a game.  They should be careful and watch it.  Regardless of any other thing, the government must realise that it is facing an uphill task and fighting a very serious problem and there are so many of them (the corrupt people) fighting the battle at this time with the ulterior motives of running down the government.”

Just before we end this interview, what is your general message to the government in areas they need to patch up and to Nigerians on what their attitude should be as the government moves on in helping them fix the country?

Let me tell you this; even the strongest possible governments would still be saddled with the problem of the people, who are trying to bring them down because they (the government) are stepping on the toes of what used to be their (people’s) usual practice.

You see, I have the feeling that they should try their best and embark on restitution and collect enough money to govern because, taking any other method may be difficult at the moment.  But if they can rake monies together, it will be better.  And they should be careful about these whistleblowers.  They could keep the money somewhere and ask the government to go there and get it and they will still earn part of the money.  That is a game.  They should be careful and watch it.

Regardless of any other thing, the government must realise that it is facing an uphill task and fighting a very serious problem and there are so many of them (the corrupt people) fighting the battle at this time with the ulterior motives of running down the government.

But when such ulterior motives are clearly displayed by people who are in office as governors or who have benefited from this country as former ministers, how does it sound to you that have held office as Attorney-General of the Federation in the same nation without taking salaries?

As for that type of people, they want to destroy one to be in higher position in another one.  Do you see what I mean?  Doing so, that they can be hailed as effective destroyers in order to be given a higher post when another one is formed.  That is the problem.  But that attitude by them will not remove the problem of corruption.  That will not remove the herculean tasks facing the country.  It will then be left to the government of the day to know how to handle them.  That is all.