*Says North can’t be so selfish to want to remain in power after Buhari
By BASHIR ADEFAKA
Alhaji Mohammed Tukur, the Wali of Bakori in the Emirate of Katsina, Katsina State, is Managing Director of defunct AfriJet Airline and former Secretary General, Airline Operators in Nigeria. In this personality interview with The DEFENDER, he speaks on issues of national question, adding that Nigerians are better together in unity. Excerpts:
Can we start this interview by looking at your new chieftaincy title now in the North?
Yes. I became the Wali of Bakori District in Katsina State. It is a very big title that is given out only to the educated and people with vast knowledge about Islam. They don’t give it to anybody any how especially who does not know what he is doing. You must be honest and also you must be just, although it is only Allah that is just, but that is the measure because, you are going to advise the king on any case, especially if injustice has been done to somebody in town and so you help him in passing judgment.
“We are all Nigerians and we in the North are in love with other Nigerians. We also know that, much as you can always claim that your own is the best, we also have people of integrity from other parts of the country who are also good as well. It is the reason we should have thought deeply about pulling our strengths together for the betterment of our collective good.”
And when you said ‘advise the king’, who is the king? The Emir of Katsina?
The king is the District Head. We call him Makaman Katsina, the District Head of Bakori. Every region has its own District Head but that title of Walin Bakori given to me, you cannot see it being given without the approval of His Royal Highness the Emir of Katsina. So, it is the Emir of Katsina who gives the approval to be given that particular title I was given.
Alhaji Mohammed Tukur: The North can survive on its own, but we are better together as Nigerian people.
I know you to be a Fulani man and Katsina is known to be mainly Hausa community. I am sorry, I’m not trying to separate the united people of the North…?
Of course, you are right. But if you look at it, you will observe that, while we have Hausa, we also have Fulani and for those ruling there, they are Fulani. If you look at it, all of them are Fulani. Even the current Emir of Zazzau is from Manlawa family and that is Fulani. He is the 19th Emir of Zazzau Emirate. So, every Emirate Council, it is very rare that you find typical Hausa man ruling, apart from Maiduguri where you have Shehu of Borno, who is a Kanuri.
It’s very interesting and that takes me to wanting to ask this very important question. Nigeria currently is ruled by a Fulani man and so you have your own ruling the entire country. How does it feel to you, considering the expectation that your own in power makes you benefit more than the others?
The issue is not about what you benefitting because you have your own tribe’s man in power. Whether you like it or not, with the situation in which we find ourselves in this country, you will discover that what we want is integrity. A leader, who will not steal, who is going to serve the people because, we have got to a certain level that if not because of God’s intervention bringing this man Muhammadu Buhari in as President, our situation would have been terrible in Nigeria.
If it is about whether we have somebody coming from a tribe who has made this country proud, then I can say I feel good and great that my Fulani man has strengthened the confidence that, despite whatever misrepresentations some people try to give about the Fulani tribe of this country, we are still the tribe that many can point to as having lifted this nation up to a better standing today, locally, regionally, continentally and globally. Nigeria now has a good name and that is important to note.
Like I was saying, if not that God brought Buhari as President, our situation would have been so bad. So much that by now, if care is not taken, we would have ended up scattering around in our neighbouring countries because you had so many people who had brought a lot of damages to the country where, at a time in the past, stealing and corruption became a fashion. This is so and still, every religion is against corruption, stealing and all of the social vices that had been set into the living system of our country. Corruption was no longer an offence but fashion and some people still have it in their blood up till now.
You are so confident about the nature of your tribe’s people regarding integrity. Where is that coming from?
We were grown up in society where if anybody knew that you stole money, even if he is a beggar, and you know we have a lot of Almajiri in the North, they would not collect anything from you, no matter how much hungry they were.
You mean…?
Yes! Because, once they had heard that you stole the money that you had, no matter how much hungry they were, they would not collect anything, not a kobo, from you.
But now, unfortunately, our society is such that if you go for any government work and you come out without having money, they will insult you. Even your people will say, “Look at him a useless man. He has been so, so and so and has come out now, kobo, he doesn’t have.” If you cannot steal, you can’t live well in your society due to how enmeshed people have become in stealing and corruption.
But now we still have people of integrity, who do not belong to this category of corrupt lifestyle because they know that tomorrow, no matter how long it takes, they will give account before their Lord.
Let me tell you this, the smallest period that the last person, who dies in the life of this world, will lie down in his grave before the trumpet for resurrection will be blown is one thousand years. Even if you are not dead, considering that somebody will lie down for just 60 years, for instance, in this life, it is big problem.
It’s not everybody that understands that, Bashir. Not everybody understands that God is going to call him to account for whatever he has done and whatever he has gathered. But if you have somebody who can try for you, and at least he can help you manage the situation with little and he is not stealing your resources, if you have confidence in him, definitely you will be happy. And the beauty of it is that, that person in question currently who is laying solid foundation for the building of New Nigeria is from my own tribe.
So, if somebody knows all these things, he will be very, very careful with whatever he is doing. And I am very happy we have a leader of that quality – integrity. Not because he is Buhari. Let me tell you, if Buhari is a thief, God forbid, definitely, nobody will represent me on that basis.
But we thank God that President Buhari is a man we can trust. And if you look at leaders from the North, frankly, they are not selfish. They are far better than anybody that you can think of. You can look at others we have had so far in recent times and then look at our people of the North, you will find out that, in the North, our people are more careful because of the training and religion we have embraced, which are helping them in terms of character, anywhere they find themselves and members of other region can testify to this fact.
However, we are all Nigerians and we in the North are in love with other Nigerians. We also know that, much as you can always claim that your own is the best, we also have people of integrity from other parts of the country who are also good as well. It is the reason we should have thought deeply about pulling our strengths together for the betterment of our collective good.
But an average Southerner does not see it the way you see it here. They believe that the North always has the ambition to perpetrate itself in power hence the crisis here and there that we see. Do you see things like this running in the blood of the North?
It is not true, especially now after the election of President Buhari. When you look at Yar’Adua when we were all in PDP, Peoples Democratic Party and after Yar’Adua and the rest, we have this President, who took over from former President Goodluck Jonathan. We don’t use to say that we the North must rule forever. We always find a common friend that is the relationship between the North and the South, particularly the West. Definitely we don’t have that feeling that we are born to rule or must rule for ever. If anybody has said and is saying that to you, it is the person’s own cup of tea because it is not our way to be that selfish with power as people of Northern Nigeria. Our character in relationship with other tribes in the country can be attested to by them to show that we are not what we are called in this regard.
Definitely the truth of the matter is that, we are looking at this way, that we will have done eight years by year 2023 and then there should be the need for another region to provide the Presidency for this country.
You mentioned the West, which makes it look like the North prefers power coming to the South should fall in the hand of the Yoruba side. With the political wind that is blowing from the unexpected region of the East about Igbo presidency, how do you marry them together, being that the office of the President is only one?
Yes. But what is playing out now is very, very unfortunate situation.
Like what?
Like the people in the West, the Yoruba, who we look at as very well educated. See what is happening from the hands of most of them. I have been in Lagos for 30 years and so, I have seen so many things and I thought, by now, they should have used the opportunity they have to ensure that they come together and present a credible candidate come 2023. They have to come together to put their house in order, not scattering by hating their own. Is it not better you have your own than having somebody else from outside?
But look at what they did to their own, even the positions given to the West. Children from the region were given serious positions more than anywhere else in this country. But the problem of Yoruba is that, they pull down their own.
If you look at the case of Kemi Adeosun, the former Minister of Finance, they were the ones who pulled her down. So, when they pulled her down, what happened? Her deputy took over. I had never, ever in my life thought it was possible that Yoruba would pull that woman, Kemi Adeosun, down.
Commonsense is that, you are educated. Sit down and put your house in order. Get somebody reliable. If it is Jagaban that you don’t want, fine. Are there no other Yoruba people who are qualified to be President of this country and among whom you can pick a candidate that can represent your region as President of the Federal Republic of Nigeria? Sit down, call him, he is your son. Fight inside the room, scatter yourself but come back together and make sure that one person come out and let him have the Presidency.
Tomorrow you are the one to do it. But now, it is our father, Buhari, that is there. He is not our son. He is our father and he is doing what is doing now because of the assistance that he got from us. But whether you vote the Northerner or not, by the time we put our votes in the North, we have the President. Whether you like it or not because of the population and number of votes that we have.
So, what do you need if you have a partner from other part of the country and then you come together? And if anybody is sitting down somewhere thinking that the country is going to be divided, and he believes that if the country is divided, he is going to enjoy himself, good luck to him. The North will sit down and enjoy itself and do whatever it wants to do. We can survive on our own. We have never ever in the North said we want Nigeria to be divided. No. Anybody who wants to leave is free to go and that is the truth.
How?
First of all we have the land. We have the mineral resources. Up till today, since we started having governments in Nigeria, we have not tapped from our mineral resources, whether the gold, oil and so on and so forth. So, if we die today, we know what we are leaving behind for our children.
“Commonsense is that, you are educated. Sit down and put your house in order. Get somebody reliable. If it is Jagaban that you don’t want, fine. Are there no other Yoruba people who are qualified to be President of this country and among whom you can pick a candidate that can represent your region as President of the Federal Republic of Nigeria?”
Almajiri
They are saying we have Almajiri. Yes, we have Almajiri. Have you ever seen any Almajiri who has gone to destroy anything he knows belonging to our collective ownership, we, who are not educated? Today, you sit down, you see the whole money made from Lagos and some people just went there and destroyed everything brought to them. If they were Northerners, who did what happened that time during the #ENDSARS, they would say it is because we are illiterate. And you will come and sit down and say you like an individual. What kind of nonsense is that?
You said that the Yoruba children were given positions in government that are more than given to anybody from other part of the country. Does it not mean there is something yet unknown therefore that the same region agitates for Oduduwa Republic to pull out of Nigeria?
That was what I was saying. Surprise!
What do you think would have been responsible for that agitation?
Greed! I don’t think those that are agitating to break away know what they are doing. Is it sinful that you have somebody as a President doing something? Why can’t you calm yourself? You have only two years to take your government and when you have your government then, it becomes easy for you to do whatever you want to do. Nobody is going to tell you no. You will be in charge of the Army and everything. Education effect – that is what we call those people who are pushing for division.
We have intermarried everywhere. So, if we divide, we will meet somewhere. If you divide now, you take Lagos as capital. Is that not so? Are you going to take Abuja and say it is your capital? No, impossible.
So, we have the land. We have three states in the North which can make Federal Capital Territory. They are Abuja, Kaduna and Kano. All these cities are very, very good to make a Federal Capital. So, what are you talking about? If you say you want to divide, we will take our country from Sokoto down to Kabbah. We are not talking about Kwara because Kwara is part of us. We are not going to give one inch from what we have.
So, you take your Oduduwa and you go. If you are Biafra, take your Biafra and go. We are not afraid of anything and so people should stop threatening to say that we the Northerners cannot stand if they break and that is the reason they are threatening breakup of Nigeria. If you divide and you go, we will take our Nigeria, no matter how bad it is, we will manage ourselves, do you understand? And we will live in peace.
Look at Niger, our neighbouring country. Today, Niger is doing very well. They have oil, they have everything. So, here in the North, we have gas and we have everything. We are not going to tap from here. We have Mambilla Project. By the time we have it, we are okay. We can give anybody light. So we can’t have problem. Our people are farmers. You will come and import food from us. Even if you farm by yourselves, it doesn’t mean that we cannot feed ourselves here in the North or that we will depend on you as far as food security is concerned.
So, anybody who sits down somewhere thinking that, if they divide Nigeria, we in the North will suffer must be joking. Look at all of them, how many are they?
Sustenance of North
You don’t control the lives of the people. God made humans and makes provisions for their sustenance. What they are seeing in the land that is making them think we cannot survive without them being with us is not by their power. They came there to meet it. You can move here and there. If you are not comfortable in Nigeria today, tomorrow you can go to Ghana. The land is everywhere. That is what God says. If here is not good for you, go to another land and God will provide for you.
It is people, who do not know what they are doing that boast the way they do. So, they think because they have education and they are smart, they can do anything. And at the end of the day, they will come and prove themselves that they are educated.
Way forward
That exactly is what has happened. And I hope some of them who are very wise will sit down and think that the earlier the better we live together in peace. But, if they think that it is dividing the country that is good for them, well, I think they are making a big mistake because, they will live to regret it.
Go to South Sudan now and see what is happening there. They have never known peace since they were cut off from Sudan on the allegation that Northern Sudan was using Sharia Law to rule over them, whereas, they claimed, the oil that was sustaining the entire old Sudan was from the South Sudan. They should go to South Sudan now and ask about their experience.
Islamising and Northernising the country
It is simple. Those who are accusing the President, being a Muslim and Northerner, of Islamisation and Northernisation of the country just hate Islam because the President is a Muslim and he is Fulani. But there is nothing you can do about the Islam that you hate because it is a religion established by God and it is the fastest growing religion in the world. Some of them don’t even know that we love Jesus more than they do because, when we mention Jesus, we say ‘Alayhi salam’ (peace be upon him) and we don’t blaspheme or insult him. We don’t just call Jesus anyhow and no Muslim is Muslim except he believes in Jesus. Some of them don’t even know everything about their own religion talk less of knowing about other people’s religion.
But we have very good Christians, who understand everything and so we live together in peace and we do things together and now you have some Christians, who want to do things anyhow. And you know in Islam, we are asked to relate with non-Muslims with fairness and justice. That is where we stand.
So, those who are bent on destroying the President because he is a Muslim or Northerner, where is their conscience and what is their claim to divinity?
In a situation where the hate for the President is extended to the security forces that work with his government and the people in the act do not seem to stop soon, what is your word of encouragement to the security agencies; the Army, the Police, the DSS others?
My word of encouragement to the security forces is that, they should continue doing what they are doing so long it is the right thing. What I do know is that, you cannot hate the Army or DSS or the police, for instance, for carrying out their constitutional duties. That will be affront to the country. And I cannot advise that the security forces, who are doing what is right, should fall for the conspiracy of the haters and enemies of the nation. God will continue to be with Nigeria, the government and its security forces will overcome the challenges for the innocent Nigerians to live in peace and have a better Nigeria of their dream.
They are complaining about the appointment of service chiefs. But when you look at the appointment you can then look at what happened before the President came. They want the President to remove the service chiefs so that they can penetrate and do whatever they want to do with the government. They have plans. If somebody comes to meet you and says, “I have a better bullet proof door, remove the one you are using and put another one,” will you listen to him?
So, anybody can blame Mr. President for not removing his service chiefs but he knows what he is doing and he knows the people he is working with. When the time comes, very soon, he will leave the stage and, if you like, you can do whatever you want to do.
But the issue is, democracy is what people are practicing. If you want to change a government, use your vote to change it. Not for you to be on the media or Facebook and Twitter tweeting whatever you think you know how to tweet and on the day of election you sit down in the house drinking your beer. To go out and vote, you will not.
In our own zone, somebody who is in the bush has a radio and he knows what is going on around the world. He listens to BBC, France, he hears all the news in the world before he goes to sleep. He is more educated than you who sit in the office not even watching a single programme. And look at some of the media, they will go and bring people who don’t know what they are talking about and you put them on set only to talk rubbish.
So, you have people who know the message they are passing is to promote crisis and insecurity in the country and the message they pass will come back to haunt them, Inshallah.
